I was informed that Ridgid has started to outsource their manufacturning to China and that most of the products with a Ridgid name on them are not even made by The Ridge Tool Company. Could you please tell me which products are manufactured in Elyria by the Ridge Tool Company and which products are manufactured by an outside company which then places the RIDGID logo on the product?
Sorry if I offended anyone, but I must address your other comments plumber. The Chinese govt mistreats their people very badly, and this I freely acknowledge. I understand why you have this indignation against those people, but we still have the problem none the less, regardless how we feel and it needs to be addressed. China has been accepted into the free market place, but it appears to be doing 'too' well. I see your government is taking actions against the dumping of textiles by the Chinese in tonights news, along with the European Union. We feel very comfortable as westerners knowing that it is those predominantly in our capitalistic society who enjoy the greatest wealth and control of the world economy. When we see an eastern country with another culture to ours prospering in an imposing way upon the international stage, we feel naturally threatened. We become suspicious, fearful, and very patriotic. But it is at times like these we should remember what it was, and what it is that made western countries prosper and excell in the past, which we have inherited the blessings of. It is not that we were more aggressive than anyone else as people, more cunning, more shrewd, or better fighters originally, although this has occurred as a consequence. The fact is that the reason why America, England and these other nations were blessed with technology, and the knowhow to progress so bountifully, can be understood by what you repeat in your pledge of allegance, "One nation under God" Queen Victoria when asked what was the reason for Englands greatness, in the zenith of the British Empire: She answered, "The Bible" Although many Americans, Australians, and Europeans and English, in fact the majority of; have rejected God, God has been faithful and remembered the faith and prayers of our forefathers. One of the reasons for the collapse of the Soviet Union, was the fact that she persecuted so desperately Christians in every place. Books have been written describing the martyrdoms occuring of Christians in Soviet jails. God still judges amony the nations. God will avenge the blood of the martyrs shed in China. God will not and cannot over-look sin. Not yours, not mine, not anyone's. Chairman Mao's wicked oppression of Christians will be judged, and will the guilt of his successors be brought to account, that you can be assured. The best we can do is be thankfull to God we live in nations which permit freedom of religion. And we should all remember God and seek forgiveness for our sins through the atoning death and shed blood of His Son Jesus Christ: Our ransom to God for our sin. Could it be that God is permitting other nations to rise up to test us, because we have forgotten Him, as the Israelites forgot God and were tested by the Philistines 1000BC as we read in the Bible God left these nations around Israel to TRY them. Under the reign of the 3rd King of Israel,King Solomon: who worshipped God and served Him, there was peace on all sides around Israel. But before King Solomons death, his heart was turned against God and he began to serve idols in the pagan temples, due to his lusting after foreign women who it say's "turned his heart away". The Bible then says as a consequence, God rose up certain nations to trouble Israel around about.
Righteousness exalteth a nation: but sin is a reproach to any people. Proverbs 14:34
Sorry for starting these discussions of in a brash manner, I had no idea where they would lead. Thankyou so much for your patience, and for listening. I still would like to buy a Ridgid drill in Australia!
I do question your figures regarding 10 dollars an hour. It was just a number to illustrate the point. An experienced tradesman may be worth between 20 to 30 dollars an hour plus benefits, but around here you'd be lucky to get 1/2 that. Guess I should move to Illinois.
I have no problem competeing and trading with countries like Canada, Germany Switzerland and the like because people there enjoy a standard of living comparable to ours. Their costs are similar and its a level playing field. No, its not level. Closer, but not level. Percent of total gov't revenue from income taxes are: Germany 47.9%, Canada 56.5%, Switzerland 60.1%, USA 62.7% (2001 OECD data). Their workers/producers have a competitive advantage. Luckily we are better to compensate. Korea on the other hand is at only 32.9%. Harder to compete against that.
technologicalised people who are used to bountiful fineries and luxuries, and the best of pleasures and high standards of quality and service, that the free market can offer. Americans on average enjoy a standard of living many times better than your average Chinaman. But the cost is being seen in the 'correction' of the cost/price squeeze. Companies lusting after greater profits, perhaps seeking to reduce debt, or return greater profits to the 'almighty' shareholder: are being seduced into doing deals with foreign companys. The ultimate benifacturer is the American consumer because it forces prices down across the whole range of goods. Drills overall have reduced in price over the last 10 years. The US Consumer has more money left over to support other producers. This is also why US labour is so expensive, because on the whole you need higher incomes to support your standard of living
THANKS PLUMBERDOG 10. GLAD THAT YOU FELT THAT YOU WERE A LITTLE TOO STRONG. AS FAR AS PRODUCING THINGS OVERSEAS LOOK AT SOME OF THE LOWER END PLUMBING FIXTURES FROM AMERICAN COMPANIES. SUCH AS AMERICAN STANDARD, KOHLER, MOEN, DELTA, PRICE PHISTER. WATER HEATERS FROM AMERICAN APPLIANCE, RHEEM, AO SMITH, BRADFORD WHITE. ALL OF THESE LOWER END , RESIDENTIAL PRODUCTS ARE MADE OUT OF THE US. WE CAN'T STOP FROM BUYING THEM. WOULD YOU OR YOUR CLIENT SPEND 50% MORE TO BUY A MADE IN AMERICA PRODUCT? DO YOU BUY AMERICAN, DOMESTIC GAL PIPE AND FITTINGS? DON'T THINK THAT'S IN THE BUDGET.
ONE THING THAT I LEARNED FROM WORKING AS A UNION PLUMBER FOR 13 YEARS WAS THAT THEY DON'T WANT TO ELIMINATE LABOR, MANPOWER. IF IT'S TOO FAST, THEY FIGHT IT. LOOK AT THE ONGOING LAWSUITS OVER PEX PIPE AND CSST GAS PIPE HERE IN CALIFORNIA. IT'S ALL BASED ON UNION POLITICTS. ALL OTHER STATES AND COUNTRIES ALLOW FOR IT'S USE. IN THE OLD DAYS WE HAD TO THREAD ALL OUR HANGER RODS. NO ALLTHREAD. TODAY WE USE ALLTHREAD. I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE GOING TO WIN THE BATTLE OVER COST SAVINGS. AS LONG AS THE PRODUCTS MEET OUR CODES THEY ARE ALLOWED. THIS BRINGS ME BACK TO THE ORIGINAL TOPIC. IF RIDGID'S NAME IS ON THE TOOL. THEY WILL STAND BEHIND IT. IT MIGHT NOT HAVE THE LIFETIME WARRANTY, BUT IT HAS A 3 YEAR WARRANTY. THAT'S BETTER THAN MOST. I WOULD RATHER PURCHASE A PRODUCT THAT HAD AN AMERICAN NAME ON IT, EVEN IF IT WAS MADE OVERSEAS. THAN TO PURCHASE JUNK FROM AN OVERSEAS CO. I FEEL THAT THE PARENT CO. WILL STAND BEHIND THEIR PRODUCT AND NAME.
LOOK AROUND YOUR JOBSITE AT ALL THE DIFFERENT MATERIAL AND FIXTURES AND SEE WHAT IS DOMESTIC AND WHAT IS IMPORT. YOU'LL BE AMAZED.
THANK'S FOR THE RESPONSE.
I think what he was refering to was the cordless power tools now being sold at Home Depot. I recently bought a Ridgid cordless sawzal because of the brand. I was suprised to find it was manufactured in China by another company. So far I'm happy with the tool. But I have a problem with the outsourcing of the manufacturing.
I make my living building and maintaining commercial/industrial buildings, and in turn Ridgid makes their profit from people like me. If we continue to farm out our manufacturing who will buy the tools you make.
Bytebutcher,
While I agree that the tax system can be unfair, your concept of taxing the producer over the laborer has a flaw. Taxing commodities (ie a sales tax) simply means you would be paying the same tax in a different form. As would be a "producer's" tax, which would simply mean higher prices for the consumer. This is not to mean I would be against a national sales tax. I just think that it is not pertinent to the subject.
Brademan was attepting the tired argument that American companies are encumbered by economic and environmental constraints. If we just freed them up we would all live in the Garden of Eden.
Custom Pay Less Saddles::
Blue Ridge Silver Show Starter Package #W12. Made in the USA for Lanta Saddlery Made in the USA by Dakota Saddlery or Lanta Saddlery
http://paylesssaddles.com/custom_pay_less_saddles.htmHOME |
If Brademan is correct, I don't understand why Ridgid doesn't move the whole operation to China. As a matter of fact, why don't they farm their management out to Chinese nationals. I'm sure they work for less money.
I wrote the above post several months ago. I've noticed that a Ridgid rep jumps online when someone is in the process of purchasing a tool. How about an answer to my post. How do you expect to sell tools to construction and insustrial plumbers if the factories move out of the U.S. ?
its really a business decision. i think in the near future, a lot of tools would be made in asia. china specifically. in order for them to stay competitive, and since china made products will eventually improve also..
It is entirely pertinent to the discussion. That's what sad about the whole issue - people just don't seem to get it. Foreigners get to produce their products and sell them here free of US tax. Americans must build 30%-50% tax into the price. The 25% increase Brandman quoted can accounted for in the taxes on US labor.
With sales tax, all parties are taxed the same. Ultimately, switching schemes would not affect our buying power for US produced goods. But, imported products would gou up 15%. Sure it's not as great a deal for consumers but I don't really care. Its no coincidence that we are the worlds biggest consumers. If we don't end the US gov't imposed "subsidy" of imported products and services we can be sure of losing every exportable job.
Dear smorris,
Am I refering to you? I don't know. I don't know who you are. But I do know this: any time someone needs info on a Rigid tool someone is there to help.
Your contention that Rigid power tools have always been made over-seas is a cop-out at best. If Rigid puts their name on the tool, they are obviously marketing on their trademark. A trademark that plumbers/fitters such as I have depended on for years. I have respect for the Rigid name beyond what a a rep. like you would ever understand. I would venture to guess that you, smeldrick (or what ever your name is) have never used a Rigid tool in your life. I have.
For my money I'm looking towards Reed for my future purchases, their name is still solid.
Let me just say that I have used Ridgid tools for years, but I did not know that a lot of them were made in other countries. My first impression with your response to "Middle Man" and any one else that had his views about the problem of products being made in other countries was that you were offended. The remark you made about these postings were not a part of your job and you spent too much time here, was pretty screwed up.All I want to say is, Thae postings I saw were legitimate complaints about job loss to overseas companies and i think you need to find another job if you think your spending too much time responing to your CUSTOMERS.
one of the main reasons why US branded tools are made in china is because, most buyers tend to look for cheaper prices.. how many percent of the tool buyers looks for the best quality and doesnt care how much it costs..?
American companies can make a reasonable profit producing their goods in the United States, but they can make more by going overseas. Is this short term gain worth the long term eventual degradation of our standard of living? Wealth is being concentrated at the top while the average worker is pacified with cheap goods. Look at Husky tools vs. Craftsman tools. Home Depot now imports Husky hand tools from Taiwan (they were formerly U.S. made). When this change came about the prices of the tools didn't come down, but I am sure that their profit margin went way up. Craftsman hand tools on the other hand are still made in the U.S., are no higher priced than Husky tools, and I am sure Sears makes money in the deal.
Just remember, Alan Greenspan and Geo. Bush (W) both said..outsourcing isn't all bad.
Again, I agree with Plumber.
While I understand ByteButcher's argument, I still disagree. His argument seems to be "it's capitalism, what can we do?"
Well, we can go with Plumber, and buy American.
We can also confront the argument I presented: If Ridgid produces their pipe machines and their plumbing hand tools here, they must be making a profit. If they aren't why are they in business? I must therefore assume they are making a profit. The only reason they are marketing tools produced outside the US is increased profits, made from the poverty level labor they find in third world countries. Is that being a good American?
Why do morals not apply to economics in America?
HI, I think i get the general arguement on here, i am from the UK and have been servicing RIDGID threading equipment now for 22 years. We too are getting items with the RIDGID name on them but they are simply what we call buy-ins! They are another make, but painted in RIDGID colours and a ridgid logo stuck on them. The problem i have as an engineer, is that because the items are not made by Ridgid, the original manufacturer can change the design and thus parts and parts diagrams for the items are difficult to obtain.
If that makes sense
michael,
Yes its easy to say blah blah blah and then continue to buy communist because its cheap.
Like the three monkeys.
All this talk about tools and tool quality is incidental. We all know how wonderful it is to have a tool that keeps working after many years, and the feeling of a job done faster and better because of a good tool. I just want to say that the ridgid long handle shovel is my best friend and always will be. It is simply beautiful and cannot be improved upon. In fact, if I was attacked by a gang of 10 thugs, I would feel more secure with my ridgid long handle than anything else. God bless Australia.
Michael,
If you are referring to my edit above, I think you might have misunderstood me. The China plant makes Ridge products for sale mostly in China. Elyria supplies most of the rest of the world.
I would like to say that the problem with RIDGID showing a trend to saving money by having products made in China is that when people in the trades purchase tools the quality says it all. I know that I want tools that are made to last, and tools that work better than the cheaper alternatives. I will always look fot the made in USA label on my hand tools. I will pay higher prices for quality tools. If RIDGID wants to sell to the gerneral public and keep their prices lower to compete they should have a seperate line for non-construction grade tools.
Originally posted by Schmick Schmack:
You Americans should not take patriotism to the point where you think everything American IS IT, and
any other country can lose. HAVE A THINK ABOUT WHAT THE CHINESE BUY FROM AMERICA you crabs(with respect) I wholehartedly agree that USA quality on tools is paramount, and whenever you buy a tool and see Made in China, even if it is $1.50, and a genuine quality
tool would have been $45.00 - you think what a waste of time and money because we all know the tool isn't going to perform even that 1 time(tin snips for example). But what about the case of Ridgid 1/2 inch
benders which ARE made in IRELAND??? The quality on those is pretty good- but you don't hear any grumblings about the Irish support of the IRA (Irish Republican Army - known terrorist organisation).
You yanks are always out to steal our Australian trade even in well established markets. We came with you to fight the common enemy "Sadman" Hussein, and after we as a member of the colition of the willing saw victory: You covet our wheat market to Iraq which has been Australia's for decades, even after we cancelled our debt to I
IT WOULD BE NICE IF WE SHOW SOME RESPECT FOR EACH OTHER. I TOO OWN MORE RIDGID TOOLS THAN MOST. 5 CAMERA SYSTEMS AND STILL COUNTING. THE MODERATORS AND OTHERS WHO POST ARE HERE TO HELP US. I'VE GIVEN ADVISE, AND HAVE ASKED FOR ADVISE. CALLING PEOPLE NAMES IS NOT GOING TO FIX A PROBLEM YOU HAVE WITH RIDGID OR ANY OTHER BRAND. TRY TAKING IT UP WITH CUSTOMER SERVICE. I HAVE AND IT HAS WORKED. SMORRIS IS DONATING HIS TIME AND EXPERTISE TO HELP EVERYONE. IF YOU DON'T AGREE THEN JUST ABSORB IT. DON'T BELITTLE THEM. THIS IS THE FIRST TIME THAT I WROTE IN ON THIS SUBJECT. IF THIS FORUM IS GOING TO WORK, WE NEED TO RESPECT EACH OTHERS OPINIONS. LIKE IT OR NOT. HOPE THAT YOU WILL STILL MONITOR THIS FORUM AND MAKE SOME GOOD CONTRIBUTIONS TO IT LIKE I FEEL SMORRIS AND OTHERS HAVE. I KNOW THAT WITH ALL YOUR YEARS IN PLUMBINGYOUR BOUND TO HAVE SOME GOOD ADVISE TO THE NEW TRADESPEOPLE.
RICK, PLUMBING CONTRACTOR IN THE TRADE SINCE 1981.
Since this was posted in the plumbing forum, I'll assume those are the products you are asking about. The woodworking and power tools are discussed in another forum.
You were misinformed...
The Ridge Tool facilities in Elyria, Ohio and Orange, Virginia, manufacture all threading machines, roll grooving equipment, die heads and chasers, pipe wrenches, pipe cutters, pipe vises, some pipe stands, hole cutting tools, all tubing tools, all drain cleaning equipment, copper prep, and more, just like always.
http://www.ridgid.com/Tools/About-Ridge-Tool/
What specifically were you looking for?
Edit: And, lest you become confused by the above link, there is indeed a Ridge Tool manufacturing facility in China, and if you live in China, that is where some of your RIDGID products might be made. But for the vast majority of the rest of the world, they are as noted above.
[ 10-12-2004, 12:10 PM: Message edited by: smorris ]
As far as lower end products coming from other countries you are right, but if RIGID starts down this path they will put out an impression that their products are lower end. I have used RIGID plumbing tools for 10 years and have bragged their quality to everyone I have worked with. I am just finding out that they are making some of their line overseas. I know that this is part of competing with the world but I am sad to see it happening. I have put my trust in their high quality and have been willing to pay the price for that quality. I will also say that if I notice that any of their hand tools that I own are made overseas I will start to buy other brands. I am an American plumber working for the American public, I owe it to every person I work for to support jobs in this country. I am willing to pay the extra money for the tools made in and made by American workers, just as the people I work for put their trust in me.
Plumber Rick,
I agree that my last two posts were abusive to Smorris, and for that I apologize to anyone who read them.
I would like to make a few points:
1)I was not refering to Smorris until he insisted I was. I should not have started the name calling, and hope that their are no hard feelings.
2) My contention is that Ridgid is marketing tools in Home Depot that are produced in China. Yes I'm aware that this is a line of power tools that are produced outside of the Ridgid plumbing tool line. The fact that the name "Ridgid" is boldly labled on the tool is misleading. It gives the conotation that this is manufactured along side the high quality, American-made pipe machines, etc. that Ridgid is known for. When the average consumer buys a product based on brand name, is he expected to research what product line or licensing agreements the maufacturer has created. When I started in plumbing I could buy a Ridgid tool without even reading the label. I guess that's not true anymore.
3) No matter what Ridgid is producing, manufacturing it outside of the US reduces the jobs of the very people who are their customers.
4) What's wrong with Ridgid building a plant in the US to produce their woodworking tools?
Plumber Rick,
With all due respect, I do indeed buy "made in USA" whenever possible regardless of the cost. There are some things that are simply no longer available from here and there is nothing else I can do but to purchase an import at that time. But currently in our trade there is a large number of made in America tools and materials available to us. It is not just American union jobs this protects but it is American jobs in general. If we allow communist China to dictate the standard of living in this country then all of the years of freedom this country has stood for for mean nothing anymore.
Most of "BIG REDS" cordless tools are made here just as RIDGIDs pipe working equipment is made here. I will never be able to build a plant in communist China but if everyone insisted on buying American made tools then I stand a very good chance of helping to build another tool factory here. Neither of us will be remodling or building a house in China but if we keep having blue collar workers losing jobs here then we lose chances to build or remodle a house here as well.
Our nations trade deficit and federal debt is another reason to look for the made in U.S.A. tag on a product. Eventually these bills must be paid.
You certainly have a right to buy products made anywhere you wish, but for the good of everyone in this country many of us would ask you to consider products from your own country over those of a communist country.
Here where I live in the Mid West most consumers and building managers also want the U.S.A. label on what I install. Even if some of the parts of a product come in from overseas or Mexico at least a few Americans had an opportunity to earn a living making that product.
just my 2 cents.
Originally posted by beuford:
American companies can make a reasonable profit producing their goods in the United States, but they can make more by going overseas. Is this short term gain worth the long term eventual degradation of our standard of living? Wealth is being concentrated at the top while the average worker is pacified with cheap goods. Look at Husky tools vs. Craftsman tools. Home Depot now imports Husky hand tools from Taiwan (they were formerly U.S. made). When this change came about the prices of the tools didn't come down, but I am sure that their profit margin went way up. Craftsman hand tools on the other hand are still made in the U.S., are no higher priced than Husky tools, and I am sure Sears makes money in the deal. Well said Bueford.
Another example is Walmart. I haven't noticed a hugh reduction in prices since they began importing damn near everything they sell. I have noticed that their profits are up.
I still do not understand how Ridgid can produce pipe machines in America, but not other power tools. Are we to believe that they do not make a profit on their US produced goods?
Does Ridgid have any moral responibility to this country?
I normally wouldn't even respond to such a reply, but I will clarify some points.
The name is Steve, and the handle is smorris; it says so right there in the above post.
If you had taken the time to look at my profile, you'd also have seen that I design the threading machines that you tout so highly, and have been designing new products here at Ridge Tool (RIDGID, not Rigid, by the way) for almost 25 years, with 5 years of designing Rockwell/Delta stationary power tools before that. I am not a "rep" and have never been a salesman in my life. I come on this forum to answer the questions I can, and for some interesting woodworking conversation. If you'd look through my posts, you would see than many are just conversational.
I've used almost all of the tools we manufacture, and am very comfortable using, disassembling, and assembling them. I know many of our product better than the end user.
I never said the power tools have always been made over seas. I only said that we at Ridge Tool, never made them. In fact, the early RIDGID stationary tools were made by Emerson in the US, and were previously sold as Craftsman products.
Rude insults and name-calling won't make you friends around here. I'm sorry to lose you as a Ridge Tool customer, but it seems you jumped headlong to your own conclusions.
[Edit] By the way. I post here on my own, and frequently from home. This is in no way part of my job, and I probably am on here more than I should be. But when someone asks a question about products I know, I want to help, or at least refer the question to someone who can.
[ 01-21-2005, 09:42 AM: Message edited by: smorris ]
plumbdog10 & beuford,
Apparently you think I was trying to defend BrandMan's post. Quite the opposite - I was ridiculing him (as well as corporate America and the US gov't) for failing to account for the biggest cost factor in the "outsourcing" debate. A factor that is far bigger than BrandMan's Legacy costs (whatever that is), Health care costs, and Environmental constraints combined. A factor that, for the most part, does not apply to goods imported into the US.
The "producer" tax I refer to is the Federal and State income tax (including FICA). Most States also impose sales tax but that is comparatively small and applies to only the fraction of our incomes spent on taxable goods. The sum total of all the income taxes paid by the people/companies who produce a product or service is much larger.
An exact calculation would be difficult. Almost everything that goes into designing, manufacturing and selling a product is income to someone - wages or profit. Even basic factory inputs (steel, plastic, etc.) are mostly wages. Very little is true raw material (iron ore in the ground or trees in a forest) and subject to other types of taxation.
Thanks to the convoluted income tax there is no "national rate". When I was an engineer making 60K/yr I paid 30% federal and state taxes with my employer kicking in another 7.65% for FICA alone. With unemployment, disability, etc. I'm sure the total was over 40%. Now I make 1/3 as much as a self-employed carpenter/handyman and I still pay over 20%.
I don't know about you, but I work for my take-home pay. If my overall tax rate is 30%, and I want to take home $10/hr, someone must be willing to pay $14.30/hr for my time. The equivalent sales tax needed to produce the same net income and taxes would be 43%. That is the basis of my statement "Americans must build 30%-50% tax into the price." I never said anything about a corporate rate. If you have a way of producing goods and services of 100% US content with less than 40% extra added for taxes please share.
I'm not trying the debate the finer points of tax rates. Comparing overall tax rates around the world is pointless as benefits and cost of living vary greatly. I'm just trying to point out that it matters where/how the tax is collected. Sure the consumer ultimately pays the taxes but when it comes to competing with other producers in a global economy it matters greatly where the tax is collected. Therefore the subject is vital to the ongoing outsourcing debate.
All I hear on this subject is excuses and non-solutions. Wishing everyone would buy American won't work. This is capitalism. If there's a buck to be made you can bet some companies will try it and consumers will go for it. We can't dictate wages in other countries. We can't stop the exportation of jobs. But we can make sure that the same tax rates apply to domestic and imported goods sold in this country.
The absolute minimum we should do is insist government recognize the tax base in US content and adjust for it in competitive bidding. That's the ultimate slap in the face. Gov't takes your money and hires companies using foreign workers who pay no US taxes. It's already happening and it's incomprehensible to me that it hasn't been outlawed. This is one area where loyal US companies should be stepping up to the plate. They should be lobbying to get this into law so they can compete better against competitors who outsource.
FYI, Just saw the trade deficit was over 600B last year. At 43% that's 260B in tax revenue that wasn't collected. Doesn't anyone in Washington care? What’s that you say? It just frees up time for Americans to engage in some other tax revenue generating activity - right :rolleyes: . I guess you don't miss the extra $15K a year I used to pay then.
[ 02-14-2005, 02:34 AM: Message edited by: ByteButcher ]
Brandman,
To reply to a few points:
Surveys have nothing to do with morals. Your argument seems to consist of a the same school-boy logic that every mother has dealt with: well, "other companies are doing it".
You don't seem to deal with Beuford's argument that we can't deal with Cuba, but you are marketing products from a country that approves of running college students over with tanks.
I still haven't heard a reasonable explanation of why there are a number of US based companies that manufacture products with US workers who thrive. Snap-on, Marlin, Remington,Tyler, etc. seem to survive. Maybe Ridgid is taking the easy profit method. Maybe they should hire better management.
Any idiot can figure out that labor costs can be saved by maufacturing in a country that pays poverty wages to it's employees. But again, I have to ask, who is going to by your tools if jobs keep leaving the country. The Chinese? With what, the wage they are paid?
Here's a legitimate question: How much are these workers being paid? How about Ridgid releases that information.
You Americans should not take patriotism to the point where you think everything American IS IT, and
any other country can lose. HAVE A THINK ABOUT WHAT THE CHINESE BUY FROM AMERICA you crabs(with respect) I wholehartedly agree that USA quality on tools is paramount, and whenever you buy a tool and see Made in China, even if it is $1.50, and a genuine quality
tool would have been $45.00 - you think what a waste of time and money because we all know the tool isn't going to perform even that 1 time(tin snips for example). But what about the case of Ridgid 1/2 inch
benders which ARE made in IRELAND??? The quality on those is pretty good- but you don't hear any grumblings about the Irish support of the IRA (Irish Republican Army - known terrorist organisation).
You yanks are always out to steal our Australian trade even in well established markets. We came with you to fight the common enemy "Sadman" Hussein, and after we as a member of the colition of the willing saw victory: You covet our wheat market to Iraq which has been Australia's for decades, even after we cancelled our debt to Iraq some 50 million in unpaid for wheat, and because you are American you think its fair game. I'm sorry but in all due respect to our beloved cousins from USA its the same attitude we see hear. USA is everthing and stuff everybody else. So what if a drill is made in China, Ridgid have just put a lifetime warrantee on parts and labour on the drills so if it stuffs up "come on down" we'll fix it for you.
Whilst saying that if the quality of these drills turns out to be suspect, then Ridgid deserve all the critisism they get, if they want to put their name to a faulty product, then they are stupid.
By the way, can someone please tell me how I could buy one of these drills over the internet down here in Australia, I have tried in vain so far. Thankyou for listening.
reply to PLUMBDOG10: didnt it ever occur to you to just pause for awhile and ask yourself if youre the one who is SHORT SIDED...(just asking) when did i say "all tools will be made in asia????" what i said was, that "A LOT OF TOOLS will be made in asia..." and that is just my personal opinion. and oh by the way, am not interested in going into debates with people talking about.. people who makes money, personal bank accounts, or talking about great place to live in, blah, blah, blah, blah (whatever he's talking about..) end of discussion
Originally posted by michael stephen:
its really a business decision. i think in the near future, a lot of tools would be made in asia. china specifically. in order for them to stay competitive, and since china made products will eventually improve also.. Mr. Stephen,
Your profile describes you as a "businessman", whatever that means. Some of us make our living producing industry in America. Our work depends on it. It is easy for short-sided morans, such as you, to simplify the debate into: "all goods will be made in Asia." Whatever it is that you sell, can only be sold to people who make money. Maybe you don't care who you sell to. But, if you want the US to continue to provide you with a great place to live, which some of believe it is, you better start taking more concern about you country, and less about your personal bank account.
To be honest with you, I'm not sure what your opinion was. Your post was a little confusing.
Michael,
The buyers who purchase the cheap tools because of cost usually are the same ones who let them sit on a shelf 360 days a year. When a tool is only used a few times a year its easy to give it a 3 year warranty.
People who make their living in the trades use their tools every day and use them very hard. They get used in wet locations, cold locations and hot and dirty locations. We do not want to spend time babysitting a tool to keep it from malfunctioning. Tools from China simply are not built as well as they are from here. Plus tools from China enrich a communist government that has openly admitted that they train their military to fight us.
Every power tool I own is made in the USA but one. It was made in Europe and I needed it on very short notice and could not be picky. My cordless tools are made mostly in the USA and the one that is not was part of a kit and it came from Europe.
If you put a gun to my head and told me to buy Chinese, you would need to be willing to pull the trigger.
I hate to tell you ByteButcher, but your federal sales tax system will not encourage US companies.
This, again, is not to suggest that I disagree with a federal sales tax.
The problem is mathematical.
Let's say a particular tool costs a US company $20.00 to produce.
Let's say they can produce the same tool in a third world country for $1.00.
Let's now add a sales tax of 2%:
US= 20+(2%)= $20.40
Foreign= 1+(2%)= $1.02
Now you may argue that eliminating all income tax would reduce the cost of US produced goods. You are correct. But would it reduce the cost to the point of of competing with poverty level wages? I don't think it would.
You have to research how people live in the countries that Ridgid is now producing goods in. Do you want your family living that way?
I agree with Bueford, that corporations like Ridgid are getting rich off of oppressed people. I would add that they are doing it on the backs of the American workers that are their company's life-blood.
Us Australians have to choose our friends wisely, China is our biggest importer of Natural Gas, Coal and Iron ore. China's economy is booming. Without checking I'm sure China is a big importer of US products as well, I would have to check the statistics to confirm that. Any thing they buy from USA means jobs and export dollars for you. I'm sure they buy a lot of products from you. You have to be careful about too strongly subsidising your local industries, against imports. The real essence of free market / free enterprise, is a non-government interviening situation. Communism is a totally government controlled market place. I believe the problem with China is that there is just too many people. They can't pay there guys any more because there is just too many of them. America on the other hand is a country with highly
ByteButcher,
I dont mind paying taxes when they help make us one of the most advanced societies on the planet. Our roads, our military and yes our social programs make this a great place to live. But these things are not free. An American cannot compete with slave wages from a communist country.
I do question your figures regarding 10 dollars an hour. If you have liability insurance, pay both sides of FICA and maintain overhead such as advertising, book keeper, vehicle expenses and everything else then you need to charge $30.00 an hour to make ten. But since a person cannot live on ten dollars an hour, not very well anyway, you need to charge more. A trained and experienced tradesman is worth between 20 to 30 dollars an hour plus benefits. In order to pay a man his worth you need to charge between 60 and 90 dollars an hour depending on your location and cost of living. Remember that the contractor needs to make a profit on the workers time as well as the worker. There will also be times when the worker is doing things on his truck or in the shop that does not bring in any income. This must also be calculated into the hourly rate. Any business man who does not figure four hours a week of non productive time for each man is making a mistake.
As far as buying American its not just a matter of bottom dollar for each individual. Its a matter of national security and a matter of national survival. I buy American when at all possible regardless of the price, its a responsibility I have to the next generation of Americans. I have no problem competeing and trading with countries like Canada, Germany Switzerland and the like because people there enjoy a standard of living comparable to ours. Their costs are similar and its a level playing field. But open trade with communist China when there are alternatives is abject treason no matter how hard you want to crunch numbers to justify it. They murder their citizens for simply speaking their mind, tens of thousands of people are killed annually in preventable workplace accidents. They force abortions on tens of thousands of women annually, FORCE them. You cannot justify trade with China for any reason. Not to me, ever.
The real fact is that China does not have three things that incumber American and European Manufacturers.
1) Legacy costs -
2) Health care costs
3) Environmental constraints
These burdensome costs American companies are facing will come with time just as they did in Japan.
When is the last time that any of us willing paid a 25%(+) for an 18volt battery powered drill? According the department of commerce, that would be about the premium we would pay.
You missed one very big burden - TAXES.
Thanks to our system of taxing producers while the rest of the world taxes consumers, American workers are not allowed to work at competitive rates. That 25% difference you quote won't come close to covering the taxes I pay for the privilege of working in America. Let me work tax-free and I'll cut my price 1/3. Do you think factory workers in China or Pakistan are paying any significant income taxes? Other countries rely more on sales and use taxes. Their burdens are not borne on the backs of producers.
According to the OECD, the US leads the world in percent of gov't revenue derived from income. Of course we are last in sales taxes. Sadly we are also third highest in property taxes. Communist and third world countries like China and Pakistan aren't even members of OECD let alone disclose all their taxes and subsidies. If I had gov't supplied housing, food, and medical I guess I could work cheaper too. BTW, Japan's problems are in fact similar to our's. But not for the reasons you cited. Guess who they modeled their tax systems after?
There is something we can do - join the rest of the world tax wise. Income tax should only be for the to 10% as it was when first enacted. An easy way to start is replace the 15% FICA with a 15% national sales tax. That would at least help level the playing field for American workers. Another 75 billion (15% of trade deficit) more a year into social security wouldn't hurt either. It would not be politically easy though. Democrats would have to let go of their beloved class warfare and micromanaging economic winners and losers. Republicans would have to admit that, with FICA included, the middle class really does pay the highest taxes and they need to accept that some income tax and re-distribution will still be required.
[ 02-09-2005, 11:51 PM: Message edited by: ByteButcher ]
ONCE AGAIN IT'S NOT THE TOOLS. HOW ABOUT THE MATERIALS. HOW MUCH STEEL DO YOU THINK IS MADE IN AMERICA? HAVE YOU NOTICED THE RISE IN STEEL PRICES THIS LAST YEAR. IT WAS BLAMED ON THE RAPID GROWTH IN CHINA. IF YOUR GOING TO BOYCOTT RIDGID, THEN MAYBE BOYCOTT YOUR SUPPLY HOUSES THAT FURNISH ALL OF OUR PLUMBING AND BUILDING MATERIALS. HOW MUCH IS REALLY DOMESTIC PIPE, FITTINGS, VALVES, FIXTURES? I DON'T THINK THAT WE ARE GOING BACKWARDS. PRICE OUT THE COST OF DOMESTIC AND IMPORT. THEN MULTIPLY THAT BY THE QUANTITY ON ANY GIVEN JOBSITE. WHO IS GOING TO PAY FOR IT?
MY 4 AMERICAN TRUCKS ARE NOT ALL AMERICAN. LOOK CLOSER AT SOME OF THE PARTS AND PARTNERS INVOLVED IN IT.
BE REALISTIC. TIMES HAVE CHANGED. YOU AND I ARE NOT GOING TO CHANGE IT.
This has certainly been a lively discussion with several heartfelt views presented and well articulated. This may be long, but please allow me the chance to share some 'facts' and statistics that are relevant to this topic.
The problem with a Made in USA debate is that there is no way to win it. Argue any side, and someone will have a logical counter to your point. In the end it resolves itself to be an emotional discussion, which in all fairness we have witnessed here on this forum boarrd.
The fact is, you and I as consumers are in full control of where things are made each and every time that we open our wallets to make a purchase. Buying American is not as easy as it use to be. Even an automobile - there is actually more domestic content in a Honda built in Ohio today than a Ford pick-up truck. The real issue I think we are all concerned about is where the profits go. And where the jobs go. So think about this not from a product view point but rather from where you invest your savings and where you shop.
Large retailers and consolidating distributors in the wholesale channel are putting pressure on manufacturers. You can name them... Wal-Mart, Home Depot, Lowe's, Sears, K-Mart, Ferguson, W.W. Grainger, and the list rolls on. Their buying power and sourcing savvy place manufacturers at odds with their distribution channels. So the question becomes not where can you go to buy a RIDGID(r) pipe wrench, but does ______(Fill in the blank) have a price wrench for sale. Statistics prove this trend.
Contractor's Tools and Supply magazine in their January, 2005,edition presented an expansive survey of professional tool users and their tendancies towards buying hand tools. What did they find?
Hand Tool Purchasing Criteria - IN ORDER OF IMPORTANCE!
1) Tool Performance (40% more important than brand)
2) Price (15% more important than brand)
3) Availability (5% more important than brand)
4) Brand
What this survey is revealing - all things being equal - a contractor is more interested in the tool's performance, the price he will have to pay, and if it is available at the point of sale he / she is standing at. Then they consider brand. This may not be the case for all, but 4,000+ respondents to this survey presented these as their opinions on how they make their purchasing decsion. What is of note - its all about performance not origin. Yes, the question was asked in the survey itself.
The survey went on to ask about the importance of made in USA. This is on page 28 of the magazine and I am going to directly quote it so that it is not my opinion, but a 3rd parties report of direct feelings of contractors in the United States:
" There are few purists in the world of contractors when it comes to the "Made in USA" mantra. According to our survey, only five percent of respondents indicated they will not buy a tool if it's not made in the USA. Sixty nine percent at least consider it every time they buy a hand tool or say that it affects some of their purchase decisions. For 26% of the respondents,country of manufacture doesn't matter if the tool does the job."
[Reference] Contractor Tools and Supplies Magazine. January 2005. Pfingsten Publishing, L.L.C. Fort Atkins, WI. 2005.
We are all concerned on some level with China imports. 12% of China's GDP is counterfit goods. The real fact is that China does not have three things that incumber American and European Manufacturers.
1) Legacy costs -
2) Health care costs
3) Environmental constraints
Fortunately American companies for the most part have a level playing field with China and others when it comes to commodities, transportation costs, and other costs of production.
These burdensome costs American companies are facing will come with time just as they did in Japan. Today, we buy electronics from Japan and consider them to be top shelf. The learning curve of quality and durability in China is growing at a fast rate. I for one do not ever foresee them being equal, but they will be a force. It is also an issue when it is hard to find labor to take manufacturing jobs in the United States at competitive wages - Wall Street Journal and Business Week both site this trend repeatedly.
And then there is the fact that we want to shop at Wal-Mart. Not picking on Wal-Mart, very successful and well managed company. Their sales equal the fifth largest GPD in the world. Think of that stat for scale - three countries and the state of California have more output of money than Wal-Mart. Number one importer from Asia to the United States, year-after-year. When we shop there, we are fueling the engine of change and putting price before country of origin. What is Wal-Mart's promise? Always the low price. Always(tm)
So what is a tool manufacturer to do? Stand firm, stay traditional and be undercut by an import brand that is available where the contractor buys, offers a good 'value', and is a quality product? Or be comepetitive and seek to no matter what never compromise on the quality and performance of their products and uphold their promise of performance to their customers? In this day and age of a global economy it is hard to have both. And I am sorry to say this - most companies are not accurately marking their products Made In USA. The definition state 99%+ Domestic componets. Tublar steel, a chain, a forging that you then add value to still makes the product only capable of being "Assembled in USA." Is that good enough? How would one determine what is good enough?
Lastly, lets talk about our investments. I-R-A's, Stocks, 401-K's and pension plans. We expect these to grow, to be worth more than what we invested so that we can have a brighter future. Management at a publicly traded company's mission is to create value for their shareholders. How do you do that - you make a profit and return it to the investor as a dividend. If you own any of the investment types that are listed at the start of this paragraph your dollars are voicing to companies around the world that you want them to make money, not necessarily make their products in the United States. In a competitive world, in competitive markets, that means looking to foreign sources for componets and supplies. Taking a best cost position to still deliver a best in class tool. We cannot have our cake and eat it too.
So back to the issue on this board. RIDGID tools. RIDGID tools are manufacutred in plants around the world. Main facilities are in Ohio and Virginia. RIDGID products are also made in plants in Switzerland, Germany, and Shanghai China. As one faithful Ridge Tool employee noted in this chain - the tools in the China plant are for the Asian market and select componets for other items. We are a global company servicing a global market.
The power tools, and there are press releases on this web site to support this, are manufactured under license by TTi (ttndy.pk on the Hong Kong exchange). In all fairness, RIDGID plumbing tools should not be blasted because of the fact that RIDGID power tools are made in China. Most power tools today are - or in other developing nations. When is the last time that any of us willing paid a 25%(+) for an 18volt battery powered drill? According the department of commerce, that would be about the premium we would pay.
This is a discussion that will not end, and should not end. We as Americans have this as a birhtright. I am a proud American, and I am so very greatful to live in this country and work here. As a manager at Ridge Tool Company (owner of the RIDGID brand) I am part of a global company that seeks to do right by its valued customers in all that it does. Products, Service, and Support. At the end of the day - we must follow the trends that are laid before us by the markets we support. As the customer migrates away from a solid stance on MADE IN USA, we have to be considerate of this attitude.
Exactly, Plumber.
If Ridgid wants to use it's name to market foreign tools, so be it. But don't expect plumbers to hold the Ridgid name in the same respect it once had.
Steve,
Thanks for clearing up alot of confusion about Ridgid tools and Ridge Tool company. There is a LOT of confusion in the field about what Ridgid makes and doesnt make and where it is from. Its talked about on a regular basis on job sites and at wharehouse counters. Most plumbers and HVAC techs simply equate the name Ridge tool and Ridgid as one. I certainly did until two or three days ago.
One thing that Ridge needs to work on is the decline in the manufacturing quality of the tubing cutters. It used to be that a Ridgid tubing cutter never walked unless it was abused and that they would last a long time. The last three of four cutters I bought have had nowhere near the quality I had come to be expect from Ridge Tools. The first two walked from the first time I used them, the handle kept coming loose and falling off of my last one and the cutting wheel was duller than my Sister in Law right out of the package. My 1 1/8 imp cutter simply fell apart in my hands after only a few months use, I kept the parts and put them back together but it never did work properly after that. Right now I am cutting almost all of my copper with Big Reds metal cutting cordless circular saw.
The gentleman posting before you is probably one of the very many who have become upset at the number of once fine quality American manufacturers laying off fellow Americans and taking their factories overseas to use cheap labor and pay no benifits and trash the environment. He may also be sharing the confusion of Ridgid pipe cutting tools and Ridgid cordless and hand tools.
I think Ridge Tool really needs to consider a bit of advertisment to trades people to help clear up a lot of the confusion. Most of us dont spend much time on these computers. Many of these guys have bought the cordless tools because they wanted the same strong quality they have come to expect from their threading and tooling equipment. When they get this stuff from China its your name being cursed and not those in charge of making the tools.
I AGREE WITH MOST OF WHAT YOUR SAYING , BUT WHO IS WILLING TO PAY FOR THE UPCHARGE IN MATERIALS?
I PURCHASED AND INSTALLD AN AMERICAN STANDARD TOP OF THE LINE TOILET TODAY. A NEW MODEL THAT HAS BEEN OUT FOR LESS THAN 1 YEAR. IT'S MADE IN MEXICO.
UNLESS THE AMERICAN PLANTS CAN COMPETE IN QUALITY AND PRICE IT'S GOING TO BE DIFFICULT TO CONVINCE THE PUBLIC TO PAY MORE. LOOK AT TOTO. A JAPANESE CO. THAT IS THE WORLD LEADER IN CHINA PLUMBING FIXTURES. THEY ARE HERE TO STAY. I BELIEVE THAT THEY OPENED AN AMERICAN PLANT IN GEORGIA. SAME AS TOYOTA, NISSAN, HONDA HAS DONE.
MAYBE WE HAVE OUTPRICED OUR LABOR. OUR HOUSING MARKET IS OUT OF CONTROLL. WE NEED TO EARN MORE TO PURCHASE THE OVERPRICED REAL ESTATE. I DON'T KNOW HOW THE YOUNGER, FIRST TIME HOMEBUYERS CAN COME UP WITH A DOWN PAYMENT AND AFFORD THE MONTHLY COST PLUS TAXES, UTILITIES AND EVERYTHING ELSE THAT GOES INTO BEING A HOMEOWNER. SOMETHING HAS GOT TO GIVE. WE CAN'T HAVE EVERYTHING AND STILL PAY A PREMIUM COST FOR IT.
WHY IS WALLMART SO SUCCESSFUL? PEOPLE ARE STILL GOING TO SHOP THERE. I'VE ONLY BEEN THERE 1 TIME AND I WAS VERY IMPRESSED WITH THE VARIETY AND COST. I WAS IN GREAT FALLS, MONTANA ON A FISHING TRIP. NEEDED A LICENSE AND PURCHASED EVERYTHING ELSE FOR THE TRIP WHILE I WAS THERE. SAME REASON PEOPLE GO TO H.D. FOR PRICE, NOT SERVICE.
IF THE PUBLIC IS GOING TO SAVE THEIR HARD EARNED MONEY, THEY ARE NOT NECESSARLY GOING TO PURCHASE EVERTHING MADE IN THE USA.
SORRY, BUT THIS IS MY OPINION.
P.S. ALL OF MY RIDGID TOOLS ARE MADE IN THE USA, EXCLUDING 2 CORDLESS AND 2 STATIONARY TOOLS.
[ 01-24-2005, 11:21 PM: Message edited by: PLUMBER RICK ]
Are you are referring to me jumping in whenever someone posts about tools? If so, I did answer your question. All of the traditional RIDGID plumbing and pipeworking tools are made here in Elyria, Ohio and in Orange, Virginia.
The stationary and hand power tools have never been made by Ridge Tool, so they haven't moved away from us.
[ 01-20-2005, 09:29 AM: Message edited by: smorris ]
I'm still waiting for a Ridgid executive to respond to why Ridgid marketed tools are be manufactured in China.
Anyone here old enough to remember the phrase (no disrespect intended) Jap Crap? Deja Vu all over again
Brandman,
With all due respect.
Its really simple. Buy from China and you support a communist country that trains its military to wage war with us. (They ran us out of N. Korea with 50 year old rifles and simply over ran our superior forces with overwhelimng numbers.) We lost a lot of good men. They are still communists.
My GMC has a North American content sticker that shows 86% North American parts and Labor. My last Ford had 94% North American parts and labor. Yes some have less, none of those will ever grace my driveway. I will write you a check for 500 dollars if you show me a Honda with more North American content than my truck. I'll even hand deliver it along with a case of American beer and 50 lbs of American brautwurst.
Perhaps you are too young to remember the cold war, perhaps its just too far in the past for you to care. No one in the U.S.A would have ever considered buying anything from the Soviet Union regardless of quality or cost. They were our enemy. Perhaps you do not remember Chinese tanks running over and murdering young adults in Bejing just because they wanted to be free. Perhaps you do not remember the Chinese general who laughed after they knocked our plane out of the sky and held its crew captive, He openly bragged how they train to fight us. Did you see where they are launching nuclear submarines? Have you seen our trade deficit? Do you even care?
The equipment available for us to use from China is junk. RIGID calls a wobbly chuck normal. Sorry but a wobbly chuck is just a bad tool.
There are names for the contractors who do not care about where their tools are from but they should not be printed here. I gladly pay whatever the costs are to have made in USA in my home, in my shop and on my truck. The job I save might well be my own. The country I support is the one I live and breath free in.
Ridge Tool Co. makes the best pipe threading equipment and pipe tools in the world. They are built right here in the U.S.A. The crap that has their name on it coming in from China is sold far below the cost of the other three leading brands. There are reasons for that, slave labor and wobbly chucks and spotty build quality.
I do not intend to insult or be rude. I do hope that you realize that we could have used numbers to justify buying things from Nazi germany because they were so cheap to make with all of that concentration camp and other forced labor. heck, it would have really improved our profit margins. But it would have been as wrong as supporting communist China now.
Fellow Plumbers,
I love this forum. It's about time we plumbers had our own place to voice our opinions. I did not come on this forum to down-grade Ridgid. I have been a fan of Ridgid since I started in plumbing. I have never owned anything but Ridgid pipe wrenches or tubing cutters ( with one exception, a Rothenberger tubing cutter I bought at a Los Angeles PHCC trade show; which turned out to be a mistake). I swear by Ridgid tools.
I got involved with this thread because I saw a good American company turning bad. Yea, I know they need to compete. But, there are many other companies that produce their products in the good old USA and still compete. What's wrong with Ridgid doing it.
I'd like to comment on a few of the posts:
1) Plumber Rick brings up the point (and quite correctly) that most plumbing products are foreign made. I have not used a pipe or fitting (with the exception of cast iron, which is still made in Tyler Texas by Tyler) in fifteen years. It disturbs my. In my end of the business (commercial new-construction) I have no say on the fixtures installed. They are specified by engineers. But I agree he is correct.
What I state is do we need to see another US company go this route. I and plumbers from New York to California believed in Ridgid. Now there is doubt.
2) ophiuchus 99 had a good point. I would take it even further. If Ridgid can market these Chinese tools as "Ridgid", it's only an amount. of time before your pipe wrench is made in China. Don't think so? Look at another American company: Winchester.
3) I would like to thank Ridgid for this forum. Being owned by them I assumed that my posts would be pulled.
4) Maybe the CEO of Ridgid needs to respond to these posts and explain to the plumbers/pipefitters, that have been the life-blood of the company, what the future intentions of Ridgid are.
Look, we can argue US tax law all day long, but the fact is we (American workers) are never going to compete with the labor in third world countries. How can we? They are willing to use "prision labor", child labor, and pay below poverty wages. What worries me is that a once great American company seems to feel the same way. Ridgid, which should honor the American plumber, which has made them what they are, has choosen to use their name to distribute tools that are made in China, by who?
How much are thoes workers paid?
China is a communist country whose military leaders are on record as having said they train mostly to fight the USA in the future. Shutting our factories here and going there amounts to arming the very people who want to wage war upon us in the future. Its just not a good idea.
Of course today no one can see past the next quarters profits or next weekends sale prices at the smiley face store.
We were ready to blow up the entire planet during the Cold war so we would not lose our way of life to the communists. Now we are handing the communists our economy and our way of life on a silver platter and asking them if they would like desert to go with it. Yes Communist labor is cheaper, those poor souls have no choice because they are sent to horrible prisons if they speak their minds or refuse to do terribly dangerous jobs with no saftey precautions. 10s of thousands of Chinese working class people are killed in mining and industrial accidents every year in China because they have no value on human life, remember that next time you buy made in China.
Tommorrow morning look at your son and daughter across your breakfast table. Think of their future and what it holds for them after we bring our standard of living down to that of Asias working and middle class. Its a &()%@#(^ crime what we are doing to the next generation of Americas working class.
Funny how we can get arrested for buying a cigar from Cuba, but major corporations are free to do business with a country who freely and openly ran over their students with tanks for disagreeing with the government. Wal-Mart and Ridged walking hand in hand down the path of destruction of the American middle class.
just hope those tools coming out of china remains consistent with quality..
Rigidservicetech,
Yes that is part of the problem. If we go into a steakhouse to order a steak and they bring us out a piece of all beef balogna we are not going to be happy even if it is all beef.
Many, many plumbers have equated these lesser quality tools to Ridgid Tool Co.. They do have their name on them after all. This plumber nearly bought a lot of these cordless tools a few months ago simply on the strength of the name until I picked them up and saw where they were made. It has to be hurting their bread and butter business as many plumbers are now sporting imperial and reed tubing cutters and talking about how much Rigids quality has fallen off. They don't care that its different companies and manufacturers, they see the Ridgid brand on cheap crap and consider them all equally related.
Mr. Butcher first off our corporate tax burden is below average when compared to other developed countries. Your statement that American corporations are paying 30-50% in taxes is simply false. And if it is true tell me where you found that information so that I can see for myself. Please don't give me the "they say" argument. Exporting jobs to China will ultimately destroy our economy. The main inequity in production costs are the slave wages paid in developing counties. If you think the playing field will ever be leveled by their wages going up, your kidding yourself, our real wages will continue to drop. Even white collar jobs are starting to move overseas as technology develops. As soon as Bush gets his way with his guest worker plan nobody's job will be safe. What makes you think that corporations are going to stop at unskilled labor when importing workers? Maybe then we will have reached Wall Street nirvana at the cost of the American middle class. This might take thirty years, but it will happen.
Smeldrick (or whatever) you do work for Rigid. I will spell "Rigid" anyway I please. I stand by my statements. I will urge the plumbers and apprentices under my control to buy American made Reed tools.
Schmick,
I have no problems trading with countires such as yours or Canada or any other FREE country where workers are treated with respect and dignity and their drinking water does not glow in the dark.
Australia has been a good friend of America for years and thank you. China on the other hand is a communist country that murders its own citizens simply for speaking their mind, their working class have no rights and they are dying in industrial and mining accidents at the rate of 10,000 human beings a year. Those are part of the true costs of all these cheap tools and 5 dollar lawn chairs ECT.
There are a few other Asian countires where we have horrible trade deficits that allow their own children to be used as slaves to produce the 3 dollar shirts that these people wait in line to buy at wally world. And you are right to be ticked off at George W. Bush. He will be your friend as long as you kiss his *** but he will turn on you like a bad dog if you dare disagree with him in public and it doesn't matter if you are right or not.
One question, what does the average communist Chinese man buy from America?
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Made in the USA by Ridge?