This has only happened once, but . . .
Someone other than myself edited one of my posts (see thread: http://www.jref.com/forum/showthread.php?p=284863#post284863.
Apparently, it was Mandylion, who in addition to adding to my post, stated in the edit info line, "Reason: just have to add - don't want to hijack".
Excuse me?!? WTF?!? I do not want anyone - ANYONE - editing my posts! This is whether they are changing, removing, or adding!!!
I want this stopped right now! This is not up for negotiation with me! Either return my post to original and leave all my posts (past, present, and future) alone, or I will delete my account!
You can quote and respond to my posts like everyone else. Or, if there is something I write that violates any rules of posting, you can point it out to me and have me edit it. But, I have never given anyone permission to alter my posts for me!
Since when did it occur that this would be assumed to be an OK function to have on this forum!?!?
:angryfire :mad: :auch:
I cannot speak on Mandylion's behalf, but I am quite sure that the reason for editing your post is quite trivial (such as hitting the wrong key, as Bossel had implied).
First of all, let me quote the Forum Rules each member agrees to when signing up:
Forum Rules
Registration to this forum is free! We do insist that you abide by the rules and policies detailed below. If you agree to the terms, please check the 'I agree' checkbox and press the 'Register' button below. If you would like to cancel the registration, click here to return to the forums index.
IMPORTANT NOTICE: PLEASE NOTE THAT BY SIGNING UP TO THE JAPAN FORUM YOU WILL RECEIVE OUR FORTNIGHTLY JREF NEWSLETTER. If you do not wish to receive the newsletter, just proceed to the User Control Panel and edit the options. Understand that we cannot respond to individual unsubscription requests.
Although the administrators and moderators of Japan Forum will attempt to keep all objectionable messages off this forum, it is impossible for us to review all messages. All messages express the views of the author, and neither the owners of Japan Forum, nor Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd. (developers of vBulletin) will be held responsible for the content of any message.
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-orientated, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of Japan Forum reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
That's just the standard nitty-gritty.
In addition to that, we have the following Terms of Service (I know I still have to relink them, they got deleted during the recent upgrade)
=> http://www.jref.com/forum/rules.php
The Japan Forum is a community of people who share a deep interest in Japan and Japanese culture. We invite you to join our discussions, but ask you to adhere to the following rules:
MUTUAL RESPECT
We built the Japan Forum on mutual respect. Feel at home and behave as if this forum is yours. Indeed, before you post pretend you run this forum: would you accept the message you intend to publish on your own forum? We encourage controversial discussion as long as you show respect to other members and their views/opinions. Avoid flaming and other offensive or profane behaviour. Don't launch personal attacks.
If you feel a discussion is getting out of hand contact the forum administrator or a moderator in order to resolve the issue.
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When new members arrive, welcome them to our community. Help them learn about how to find information and resources, so they will get involved in the community much faster and easier.
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Please avoid explicit, obscene or vulgar language, graphics or behavior. Forum posts that contain explicit, obscene or vulgar language will be removed. We do not allow links to web sites with adult, hateful or other inappropriate content as well as sites that offer pirated software ("warez").
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IMPORTANT NOTICE
Neither JREF nor any administrator of the Japan Forum can be held responsible for the behaviour of any Team Member of the Japan Forum, or any dispute among or between a Team Member and any other member.
can i block followers from seeing my @ posts to others?::
followers from seeing my @ posts to others? Im mildly annoyed Delete or Edit until someone replies) Reply to this question. 6 people have this question
http://getsatisfaction.com/twitter/topics/can_i_block_followers_fseeing_my_posts_to_othersHOME |
Robb_guests Post - Kearny on the Web::
My problem was with the editing of others and the leaving of that one. So, my decision to edit the post will not be solely based on the poll.
http://forums.kearnyontheweb.com/index.php?showtopic=162HOME |
Team Members are not employed by JREF and have no legal affiliation with JREF. Team Members are considered as equal to any other forum member, and are only distinguished by their capacity to help moderating the Japan Forum according to their own judgement and availability.
Please note that Team Members are in no position to monitor all posts at the Japan Forum, and that the compliance with our Terms of Service as well as our Forum Guidelines is up to each Team Member's judgement, without any liability to the administrators.
WE RESERVE THE RIGHT
JREF reserves the right to organize forum sections in order to best serve the majority of members. Furthermore, we reserve the right to remove unrelated posts as well as posts that violate the Forum Guidelines. Finally, we reserve the right to revoke your membership if you violate these Guidelines.
But, I disagree strongly with anyone having the ability to edit my posts at will, be they admins or not!
Administrators and moderators (team members) on all online fora - certainly not "anyone" - must have the ability to edit, delete and move posts and threads. However, in doing so they have to adhere to rules laid down by the site's administration.
Also, how often does this occur? Do the admins keep a record of how many posts they edit without asking, the type of posts that are edited, and whose posts are edited? I would be very curious to know.
We are not keeping records as to how often posts are edited or removed, because it is at each admin's or mod's discretion to interfere - of course within the framework of our Rules. In case a post has been edited there is a short tag indicating the time and reason. Admins and mods do not need to ask for permission. It would be quite pointless to ask for instance a spammer or a trolling/flaming member for such an authorisation...
Once again, I believe that the reason for your edit is trivial, but I just want you to understand that the administration and team members must have the ability to preserve the integrity of the forum.
I am sorry for your disheartening surprise and hope you'll continue to enjoy the Japan Forum knowing that our team is around, enforcing our Rules in order to ensure your online comfort.
:wave:
I talked with a friend outside the forum about this particular issue. Where I am often more passionate and fiery in my approach to life, he is more laid back and unassuming.
We went out to dinner and had a good conversation. In being able to talk with someone else, really verbalize what I was thinking and feeling, I was able to come to at least a few concrete thoughts and decisions.
1) I am sorry for losing my composure. If I had taken the time to read all rules and such thoroughly to begin with, then I would have . . . should have been prepared for this possibility. Therefore, being angry about it probably was not the best way to approach my criticism/questioning of this event.
I especially want to apologize to Mandylion, because it may have seemed that I was angry with him (which I was and am not).
2) Not knowing the rules is not a good excuse for trying to not be bound by the rules. When I signed up to participate in the forum, I was agreeing to abide by the rules and accept them, whether I liked them or not, and in this case whether I read them or not.
I didn't break any rules in this case (thank goodness!), but was merely subject to their application as pertains to the authority given moderators and admin's.
So, I guess the moral of this, kids, is be sure to read carefully what is written and don't assume you know everything.
3) I need to decide whether I can accept this or not, make a decision to pareticipate or not, and then move on with life. Inherently, because no one forced me to join J-Ref (no J-Ref draft that I am aware of!), and because I have come here and participated voluntarily, the rules are fair.
While thoughts 1 and 2 were easy for me, this one is challenging. Regardless of the debates (heated or otherwise), despite misunderstandings that occasionally occur, and even with rules that I am uncomfortable with I appreciate the J-Ref forums. So, I have to balance my discomfiture against my desire to be here. If anyone hasn't noticed, sometimes I get lost in my idealistic zeal. Sometimes, this is good, sometimes, this is a burden.
I guess, for now, I think I should stay if only because departing over this immediately might seem drastic and melodramatic. But staying in the long run I think depends on two things: first, nurturing a belief in and realizing a beneficial productivity to my participation here; and, secondly, learning to balance standing up for myself with playing nice with others. Call these two things "Do good and be good," perhaps.
I want to do good; I see the forums as being a potentially awesome resource to provide people information about Japan. But, I also sometimes feel that there is equal danger that they can serve to spread disinformation about Japan as well. I come from an academic background, one where we had factuality and objectivity drilled into us over and over. Yet, this is a place for social opinion and debate. The measuring stick is different. That being the case, I need to consider carefully the manner of my participation here.
I want to be good; everyone deserves my best regardless of the nature of the forum, discourse, or debate. I am still trying to learn to give my best when things happen or are framed in a way that I may disagree with or dislike. The question is, can I still do my best under adversity?
Well . . . there you have it. So, I'm still here, I'm still pondering, and I'm still trying. I still don't like that someone can edit my posts without asking, but I have at least moved to the point of accepting it as fair. Where to go from here?
Well, knowing Mandylion, it was done for a legitimate reason. He wouldn't just go around editing posts for no reason. He's just not like that.
Yes, we have the ability to edit posts if we see fit. That's in the job description.
I'll let Mandylion speak for himself, though, since I wasn't involved in that thread and don't know exactly what was going on.
Er..., from the FAQ:
"What Are Moderators?
Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other manipulations."
Yes, we have the ability to edit posts if we see fit. That's in the job description.
It's usually a matter of potential legal liability ... which can involve name-calling approaching slander (when the "victim" can be identified), profanity, obscenity etc. etc.
The post in question was a single link, made without any additional comment. I did so on purpose, because I felt just having the link by itself made a powerful comment. The post was edited to include the comment:
From Mandylion - I loved Patrick Lee's comment (first one after all the pictures)
1) I don't think Mandylion had ill intent in mind when he did this (I like Mandylion, too, btw!); just to be clear up front, this is not about whether or not I think Mandylion is a good person/admin (which I think he is, and I know no one is saying that I have said otherwise). But, I disagree strongly with anyone having the ability to edit my posts at will, be they admins or not!
2) Sometimes, people read over a post quickly and don't see everything; in this case, I felt that some people may not realize that Mandylion had added commentary and have thought that I had written the commentary. Mainly, in this case, because I am not sure everyone is aware that admins can add to posts like that (I wasn't!). In other words, if my posts can be edited by someone else, I am concerned that I may be accidentally thought to have written something that I didn't. I have enough of a time debating what I do say with people without the potential of having to debate what someone may think I said with an admin's edit.
3) As I said, if I write something inappropriate ("potential legal liability"), delete it, or let me know about it. If I cannot edit it to meet submission rules, then I don't mind having it deleted.
4) If these are the rules, then I disagree with them, and must seriously consider if I want to continue membership/participation if I must accept the risk of being edited over without consent to participate.
This came as a total shock to me. I suppose that if this is made clear in the agreement part of signing up, then I should have read and considered more carefully. I am sorry that I did not do so.
If I had written something over the top, I might be more receptive to what happened (like if I had written, "BLEEP you, you BLEEPING BLEEP BLEEPS! I'll BLEEPING BLEEP you in the BLEEP BLEEP, and if you don't like it, you can BLEEP my BLEEP!"). But, it does not seem that my post was edited for content, but that Mandylion was simply replying to my post within the post itself.
Also, how often does this occur? Do the admins keep a record of how many posts they edit without asking, the type of posts that are edited, and whose posts are edited? I would be very curious to know.
But, again, I guess what I am finding out is that that is the way the rules are and I can either accept them or leave. Regretfully, I have to say that is fair; this is not my forum, so I need to accept that I don't make the rules. BUt, wow, talk about a disheartening surprise . . .:( :worried: :kanashii:
Just to back-up the moderators (and with no intent to "brown-nose"!)
I don't have a problem with this.
I would rather have a post edited than deleted.
This forum is not alone. I have had a post edited on another forum. It's usually the 'better run' forums that do this.
It's usually a matter of potential legal liability ... which can involve name-calling approaching slander (when the "victim" can be identified), profanity, obscenity etc. etc.
I would say it's a matter of preserving our own security ... but, yes, it can feel insulting or harsh for a moment.
... just my two cents ....
ジョン
wow - I didn't know this could be done even by admins, although I knew they can delete posts. :souka:
I'm gonna be careful.... oh so careful.................
WHOA!
Kokusu - I am so sorry. I didn't think you would be upset. I really enjoyed your link and I wanted to add a comment. I didn't want to send the thread off on tangents and I thought (wrongly) this would be the best way to do so.
I do need to thank you for making me reflect on my actions and I will be more circumspect in my actions in the future. In the past I have only edited peoples' posts when there was something really wrong or I needed to head off a potential problem. This was my first - shall we say - casual edit. I shall not do so again.
To everyone, and to Kokuso in particular - I my apologies.
Kokuso:
As you have said, you can see how the rules are fair, so... It sounds like you really want to help people by providing information about Japan. So you should definitely stay because your contribution is valuable! Obviously, on an internet discussion forum there are posts that have inaccuracies, or people's opinions (which you might disagree with), and some just plain spam occasionally - in other words as you say "disinformation". But why not still hang around and continue to participate, you can always correct disinformation where it occurs, if you have the better knowledge!
Excuse me?!? WTF?!? I do not want anyone - ANYONE - editing my posts! This is whether they are changing, removing, or adding!!!
I don't know what it was in that particular case, but usually Mandylion has good reason when he edits or deletes something. Perhaps Mandylion just hit a wrong button?
wow - I didn't know this could be done even by admins, although I knew they can delete posts.
Er..., from the FAQ (http://www.jref.com/forum/faq.php?faq=vb_read_and_post#faq_vb_moderator_expl ain):
"What Are Moderators?
Moderators oversee specific forums. They generally have the ability to edit and delete posts, move threads, and perform other manipulations."
I want this stopped right now! This is not up for negotiation with me! Either return my post to original and leave all my posts (past, present, and future) alone, or I will delete my account!
Stick to the rules & there shouldn't be much of a problem.
But, I have never given anyone permission to alter my posts for me!
I think, you did, by registering.
Since when did it occur that this would be assumed to be an OK function to have on this forum!?!?
Right from the start, I suppose.
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Others editing my posts . . .